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SPIKE: Part One

On the eve of my housemate, Emma's, departure to New York, I recorded a conversation with Spike, Emma's boyfriend, at our kitchen table. Emma was busy packing, and cleaning, so I took the opportunity to try out my interviewing skills with the kind-hearted, but enigmatic character that is Spike. The conversation being over an hour long, has been transcribed episodically.

Conversation with Scott 'Spike' Williams

Monday, March 8^th, 2010

approx 7.30pm

How is it possible to feel comfortable with doing 'nothing'?

Spike: … on my days off... 'cause I used to work quite hard, and I expected I would have to achieve all these things on my days off, and once I realized that wasn't the case, it became really easy to spend a day doing nothing; and respect the day by doing nothing, I mean, going having coffee, or wandering around – not completely nothing.

Well, that's not too bad...

Spike: … Not sitting in the one spot and meditating for like 12 hours or that, but you have that feeling that you have to achieve certain things in a day like go and see an art opening, and go and do this and go and do that, but you can just relax and spend time with yourself.

Spending time with yourself is pretty important. You do a lot of meditation?

Yeah, I do.. Vipassana meditation. When I first got here in Melbourne I started Vipassana. They've got a place in Woori Yallock, a centre, and I went and did a ten day meditation course there which was really intense. It was eleven hours of meditation a day – no speaking, no looking anyone in the eye, or anything liike this for ten days; it was completely free of charge too, and non-sectarian, silent hard-core meditation.

It's like a surgical operation – they were saying – it was like a deep surgical operation to the mind, type of thing. Really cleansing, they're really guerilla-like, it's a really harsh ten-day training to try and shake you up and change you a little bit.

So you went there as a kind of, or not so much a rehab, but you felt like you needed to go to clear or purge something?

Spike: Yeah, yeah, it was funny because the girl I was going out with at the time... I always feel like the seeds of these things are always planted somewhere else, you know? And I just assumed that I like.. When I got down here and I met this girl and she'd done this meditation thing and it was like something went off in my mind, and I felt an instinct, you know, and a want to know everything I could about this meditation. So I thought from that that there must have been some sort of past life or past experience, or something that was planted in my mind that I should go and do this thing.

Right, so you believe in the 'past life' and having minor connections to that in this life?

Spike: Yeah, absolutely. Like little unconcious guides for you.

So like as soon as I heard about it, within about a week after I heard about I was up there meditating, it was that quick. As soon as I found out about it I wanted to be there, and I felt this connection to it and I had to go and do it. Stopped everything and went to go and do it.

Were you working at the time?

Spike: No, I wasn't. I'd only just gotten down here. So I wasn't working, which was helpful.

What did bring you down here [to Melbourne]?

Spike: Um, I came down with friends. I was in a band at the time.

Right, so the band was based in... Where were you living at the time?

Spike: I was on the Gold Coast, but the rest of the guys were in Brisbane.

That must have been tough to be in a band, and you be on the Gold Coast, and the rest in Brisbane.

Spike: Oh, yeah, oh, not really. It's only a forty-five minute drive, really. I'm not really big into rehearsing, and getting together, and I wrote the songs, and just do that...

So what do you do, just hop on stage and wing it?

Spike: A lot of the time. Or, we just get together maybe once before we play, or something. That's what we do down here, really. We all rehearse individually, and then just we'll come together maybe once or twice before we play, and get together.

Mickey and I live together – the guitar player and myself. We'll occasionally get together in one of each other's bedrooms and go over some ideas together, and stuff like that, but that's the extent of it. We don't take it too seriously.

So the band as a collective decided to move to Melbourne? Or, parts of the band?

Spike: Umm, it was all as a collective. We were all just screaming out for a change, really. It seemed like that was a good little push to get us all down here. There were more reasons why we came down than just that, I'm sure we all just wanted to move, needed a change; seemed easier to do it as a group than on your own. Which is true. To have some other people to soften the blow of a move for you.

How does the music scene compare between Melbourne and Brisbane/Gold Coast?

Spike: Ah, it's just the same. It's the same everywhere. Ah, yeah, I'm not really in the music scene, to be honest with you, I'm not – Emma's get mad at me when I talk about music this way, but I'm not part of the scene; I don't like to be part of any group, or scene, or organisation, even though that contradicts what I've said about wanting to do this meditation, but that is a very individual thing as well, and when you're there doing it, you're there only for yourself and they put you... you're not allowed to look at anyone in the eye – so you're supposed to feel like you're there on your own. Nobody else can help you achieve your ultimate goal but yourself, so there's only people guiding you...

So I don't like feeling part of any kind of scene. So I don't know what the scene is here in comparison to Brisbane, to me it seems exactly the same. I think it's the same everywhere, but that's just my opinion. Just smaller, some placees are bigger. I think everywhere got great bands, and artists, and musicians. Just to me I don't see much difference at all. I know everyone harps on about how much different and how much better it is here, but...

Well, I mean, I can't compare – I don't know anywhere else...

Spike: Yeah, better - it's hard to define that. There's just more bands here, does that make it better? I don't think so.

No, I don't think so either.

Spike: I met just as many great musicans and fantastic bands on the Gold Coast, of all places. But then here per capita, I guess, there's just a higher density of people here, and a more stuctured environement for them to perform. But to me, much the same.

Your meditation – do you do that everyday?

Spike: I don't do it everyday. Umm, I should do it everyday, but I just try and fit it wherever I can, like you can be sitting on tram -

Emma: I'm going to do it everyday when I'm in New York! Because I've been living in a [?] lately. I used to do it everyday -

Spike: Hmm.

Emma: - and I haven't been lately, and I just feel NOT good for it.

Spike: Yeah, I try not to have any kind of structured thing of when I gonna do it, just whenever it feels like I

need to do it, or when I've got a spare fifteen minutes. And I don't go into to it to do it too intensely, or anything, you know. That was what the Vipassana thing was, that was the intense section of it, to teach you the practise, and then you just utilize it however you need to; like you can seriously do it if you're waiting in a waiting room, or something, or you're sitting on a train or a tram, you can have your eyes open, you don't need to have them closed, you don't need to be sitting down, or listening to any kind of music, or have candles, or anything like that. It's got nothing to do with that.

Emma: It's just that feeling of grounding yourself, for me.

Spike: These master meditators, they can – you can – meditate in a crowded room, with people talking around you. It's got nothing to do with like, you know, what some people think mediation is; like music and dark cool places...

No, no, no...

Spike: … some people might actually need that because they've got really busy minds, and get distracted very easily. But it's just about observing your breathing...

So, do you start by counting your breathing?

Spike: Yeah, that's all I do.

… And emptying your minds of thoughts...

Spike: So the Vipassana meditation is not about visualisation, or anything like that. It's not about any kind of mantras, it's the most hard-core, I guess, of the meditations, as some of it's just about living in that moment, and focusing on the breath moving in and out of your body, and as that's happening focusing on parts of the body that might be experiencing some sort of pain and dealing with it... You actually do circulate the body as well, and all different parts, and sort of, become aware of what's happening in that part, and move on... It's all about awareness...

[A phone alarm goes off]

Spike: … like it's just living in the moment. Is that your phone?

Emma: Yeah.

Spike: And um, it's sort of supposed to help with you dealing with your situations as they happen; not getting too far ahead, and getting stressed out, or looking behind, and getting stressed out. Just dealing with things as they come – that's the whole reason for it.

So it obviously had a pretty huge impact on you...

Spike: Oh yeah, definitely.

You came away from it more knowing who you were? Or happier?

Spike: Um. Not so much as coming away... Well, I was really proud that I made it through, there some were changes in that respect – that I made it through the ten days and I didn't quit – I felt a good sense of achievement. But they teach you the rules, it's like a guide for living, giving you the tools to put into your everyday life, and what you do after that is you own thing – so I just felt better equipped to handle certain situations, and things of that nature.

Are there moments in life, maybe doing things, where you feel yourself? Who you really are?

Spike: Hmm. That's an interesting question.Umm – are there moments where I feel more myself?

I guess, as I spend a lot of time alone, on my own, probably that's the time – like I was saying, on my days off, I tend to wander around and do things on my own, and that's when I'm kind of feeling happiest...

What other things do you do on your own apart from wandering?

Spike: [chuckling] Everything, basically. Anything that you can do with somebody else, you know...

Do you collect things?

Spike: No, not really.

Not a collector.

Spike: I'm not a collector – I like to get rid of things, actually. Quite a lot.

Surrenderer.

Spike: Yeah. When I moved down here I pretty much gave everything away. Pretty much everytime I move I give away everything I have then start again...

Emma: Those Fuckers!

Spike: What's the matter?

Emma: They didn't give me an international student card at all...

Spike: What card did you get?

Emma: It's just an [Travel Agency name here] one.

Spike: What does that mean?

Emma: So it's like their one... It's not a proper, official international one.

Spike: Oh no.

Oh no!

Emma: I paid twenty-five dollars for it!

Spike: How much was the other one?

Emma: That's the proper one. The fuckers!

Spike: Have you shown Piper yours?

Emma: It looks so shonky... Look at this bloody card they gave me. I paid twenty-five dollars for it... Those

fuckers!

[Emma pulls out card – it is received with laughter]

Spike: Haha! It's looks like you made it at home!

It looks lke it's been contacted together!

Emma: Sooo dodgy!

Spike: So what's that supposed to do?

Emma: Is that going to like entitle me to anything?

Spike: You never know... Pull it out; they've probably seen it all before.

Emma: Fuckers!

So what exactly do you need that for?

Emma: Just around the world as a student; to use in, like, museums and galleries. Transport.

Oh what a shame!

Emma: Fuckers!

….

What were you saying? Sorry. I remember you were saying about letting things go, giving things away...?

Spike: Oh yeah. Yeah, I don't really put too much value onto stuff. Yeah, when I moved down here, I pretty much gave everything away and just brought down clothing. And a few CDs, and records, and stuff. Started again. I tend not to develop too much attachment to anything – that's another one of those Buddhist style philosophies, you know, I guess if you're not too attached to things, and if you lose something you're attached to, then you cause a lot of pain and suffering. So if you don't draw attachments to these things you can alleviate that.

Did you develop that from your Buddhist learnings alone?

Spike: No, I think I've always felt that way. I kind of can remember we were like that in my family. My mum wouldn't really keep too much stuff, she was like super organized and anal with cleaning, and chucking old stuff out – out with the old, in the new, kind of thing. [some unintelligible dialogue]... throwing stuff away...

And you were saying that giving things away, and letting go, and detaching, basically makes you less vulnerable to being hurt (by being attached to things)...

Spike: Yeah, 'hurt' could be one way of looking at it, but I don't think of it like that. Because, you know if you lose something like – a pair of glasses, or something – and get all angry and upset because you lose them and it's not really that big a deal, so... I think too many people get too attached with their possessions, and it upsets them if they were ever to lose them, or scratch them, or break them, or blah blah blah.

Yeah, I guess if you were to interpret that as purely a material object, that you shouldn't get too attached to. That's something I should definitely learn.

Spike: I try not to put too much sentimentality into any things, either. I'm quite a sentimental person, but I leave that for memories, and things of that nature, not anything tangible.

Fair enough. How about things you're obsessed with?

Spike: Things I'm obsessed with... I can be a very obsessive person, yeah. [Stroking beard] Like,

brushing my hair, for example.

[We both laugh] I'm obsessed with my hair being neat and tidy, even though I don't look like people think I might look [on the inside?]. So I'm very straight down the line about having my hair brushed, and things of that nature. Yeah, I get obsessive about that.

Why is that, do you think?

Spike: I don't know – I think I might have a slight OCD problem because I like to have things straight and neat, and in order. Even at home, things like remote controls, I'll have them straightened up; and I don't like going to bed unless everything is straight, and neat, and tidy in the living area, and stuff like that. Which is kind of weird – but I don't go deeper than that, like it's all surface stuff, like there could be dust all over the place, but as long as everything is straight and all the cans are straight and all the labels – things like that...

Emma: I'm like that, actually.

Spike: I don't go to deep into the cleaning thing, it's more of an outward thing...

A visual thing.

Spike: I just like having things straight and neat and tidy, books, and things like that, to be all straight.

And you do an overall assessment of things before you go to bed of living spaces?

Spike: Well, yeah. Unconsciously, I find myself wandering out and straightening things up [Spike chuckles], and I guess it's become such a habit that I've stopped really noticing it so much.

Hmm. That's interesting. It's interesting that you have this obsessive need to have things in order, but not obsessive about having things, and collecting things. Could you connect that and say that you need to control things...

Absolutely...

… and therefore having objects that you're emotionally attached to leaves more room for losing control..?

Spike: That's a good point. Yeah, like I think I might have mentioned, there are very few things you can control in your life, except for your own personal space so I do have quite a tight control over that space. I like to know where things are...

You live off Glenlyon Road?

Yeah.

How many people do you live with?

Spike: Two others...

Your friend...?

Spike: Mickey. [Sorry] The guitar player in my band, and Billy, another friend of ours. All around the same age, all from Queensland. Got heaps in common, actually. Bill was born, like, three days - no, four days - after me, forty minutes up the road.

Emma: Aw, I didn't know that...

That's amazing..

Emma: Which hospital was he at?

Spike: He was from Woodridge, so I think he was born at the Royal Brisbane, or something like that, or Southport hospital. We didn't know each other in Queensland...

[Emma meanwhile has been going through and clearing out her handbag below on the kitchen floor, she is pulling out all sorts of bizarre objects that she is arranging in piles around her]

Emma: Oh my God.

Spike: … like I'd seen him around and knew of him [some unintelligible dialogue]... Had heaps of connections – hahaha what is that? [we are all laughing at a small plastic bag Emma is holding up].

What is that!?

Spike: Is that from, is that really from A1 Bakery?

Emma: It's good.

Spike: I'm sure it will be because of all the honey in it.

Emma: There's nothing in it to go off [she has broken a bit off to try – Spike now takes some].

May I?

Spike: They're delicious those things.

How old is it?

Emma: Friday.

Spike: Doesn't taste as good as it would have done three or four days ago, cause..

It's edible.

Spike: … the pastry's gone all soft and it's usually got a flakiness about it.

Where's the A1 Bakery?

Spike: On Sydney Road. It's really delicious. It's an institution in the Brunswick area.

An institution, you say?

Spike: Yeah, it's really well loved and recognised by the locals. For $1.50 you can get these amazing herb

pizzas.

Are they Vegan friendly?

Emma: Yeah, they're just like bread, with herbs on.

Spike: Delicious.

Oh God Emma! The bottom of your bag is horrendous!

Emma: I know! That's why I'm cleaning it out!

Spike: I dropped Emma's bag the other day, and was shocked at what came out...

[All laughing]

Emma: But it was so funny! Because I was like “Baby, don't tip my bag upside down” - he was drunk at the time, and he was like “Awlright..I won't baby” and then he staight away turned my bag upside down. Ohhh! As soon as I said it!

Spike: I was pretty shocked by what came out of it – I was like “Oh, my Good Lord!”

Is that that pedal you're missing of your bike?

Emma: Yeah. I tried to screw it back on and it wasn't working... This is actually what's going in my bag [she gestured to a certain, smallish pile].

Spike: I'd like to see customs whipping through your bag, actually. They'd be like, “Oh, shit!”

[Laughter]

Emma: This is why I have to look like the organised, together person that I am. This is a bad representation of myself.

Some airports are going to make you take all your metal things out of your bag...

Spike: Yeah, yeah, that'd take you half an hour to get all that out, it's a good idea you're cleaning it out.

You wouldn't want to be missing a plane.

Emma: These are the... It's really funny because an assignment of mine went missing, and they were like – these are the fucking receipts [for assignment submission]! Look at them! [Emma holds up a piece of paper 10×10 cm] For your assignment... That's like a six and a half thousand word essay right there. They were like, we haven't received it, we can't find it. [I gasp] So I was like, EEE! And going through my bag, was just like, is that it? And then eventually I found it [the receipt] and it had a big chunk of banana stuck to it!

[laughter]

Emma: They were like, “Oh you did hand it in, didn't you?” And thenn , “Oh are you still looking Emma, no, we found it, like, fifteen minutes ago”.

Women's handbags are fascinating, aren't they?

Emma: What is that? They're disgusting. I do actually clear this out quite a lot. I don't know what that is...

They do tend to accumulate everything...

Emma: I don't know why it's so dirty!? Like, when I put things in there they come out dirty – it's not like I'm rolling around in dirt or anything. [Emma holds up a crushed up bit of grey paper, with bits stuck to it] See, that's an assignment receipt... [laughter].

Spike: You get assignment receipts? What a clever idea.

Yeah, I don't think I ever got assignment receipts.

That one looks like it got wet.

I've been noticing this trend, although particularly with asian ladies for some reason, whenever they have a boyfriend, they get their boyfriend to carry their handbag...

Emma: Oh, that's so wrong!

I know, it's gets me really riled up, and angry.

Spike: Are they like really big bags, too?

Yeah, those really big bags. But, it's like they have a little slave that follows them around.

Spike: Their mule.

Emma: That's disgusting...

How do you do that? Is it like into six dates that you go “Hey, can you carry my handbag now?” How would you approach a big guy about that, if your a small girl, and say “can you carry my handbag?”

Spike: I guess it was on one of the first couple of dates, and you were trying to impress her, maybe you would carry it, and they'd you get stuck! [Laughter] And so you'd have to continue to carry it, and you'd be like oh shit, dammit. And probably wouldn't be until you were a bit more comfortable that you could say, “Look, hang on, this is really clashing with my trousers,” or shoes, or something. “Look, if you just warn what colour your handbag's going to be I can wear the appropriate shoes”.

It's so emasculating. A bit wrong, I think.

[Spotting a tiny glow-mesh purse that Emma pulled out her bag] Ooh, what's that - that's pretty...